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Votre article nuance utilement le propre commentaire un peu pessimiste que j’avais fait de l’évènement, conjointement avec un ami général très fervent défenseur d’une vraie défense européenne
http://www.europesolidaire.eu/article.php?article_id=597&r_id=

Petit extrait d’un sujet de forum ici:

http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/navy-maritime/royal-navy-discussions-updates-5679-346/#post206180

Trés mauvaise ambiance!! et le ton monte vite.

en fait je pense qu’il s’agit surtout d’Echelon et tout ce qui va avec. Espionnage économique, infos non fournies, pistage des SNLE français,etc..

Vider un porte avion de tout ses moyens de communications et en reinstaller d’autres tout les 6 mois ou 2 ans sera difficile.

Ce que j’aime bien, c’est lire noir sur blanc que la France est tenue à l’écart au sein même de l’Otan. Pas vraiment inattendu, mais pas écrit habituellement.

A noter que les interlocuteurs semblent Australiens.

Pour des raisons de mise en page lire directement sur le forum est beaucoup plus clair.

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11 Hours Ago   #5181 gf0012-aust urker General
Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 10,004

Quote:
Originally Posted by weasel1962
Seriously gf, lighten up.
excuse me? someone weights their response to deny whats actually happening in the real world outside of the internet and I’m supposed to “lighten up” - he then throws out the canard of not changing his view until he sees something about how the relationship will change at a contractual level - when he should know damn well that the actual relationship details aren’t on the internet in the first place. Lets get real and look at how it does actually work - not on some chest puffing fluffery which wants to ignore events already in play

Quote:
Originally Posted by weasel1962
I don’t think anyone here believes there won’t be operational issues/constraints behind the UK-French co-operation and no one here is arguing otherwise on a operational level nor really contradicting what you have said.
not from his tone and intent previously

Quote:
Originally Posted by weasel1962
I believe where rik is coming from is that that co-operation will not result in a massive breakdown in defence relations between the UK and US esp arising from ToT issues. I don’t think anyone here believes it would happen either nor result in any scaling down of the “special” relationship.
again, who is talking about a massive breakdown, I am talking about real constraints - and the fact that he seems to be oblivious as to the real world constraints currently in place - let alone how they will change as a result of the formal alliance cordiale’ says much This isn’t speculation. Its happening now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by weasel1962
I agree with Rik’s assessment that the cooperation is unlikely to be used as a back-door to French/US tech or IP esp in the light of already heavy joint cooperation between UK and the rest of Europe.
and yet you both seem to be unaware of what is provided the UK, what is kept out from France and how current contracts already have restrictions on what the french can see even at NATO levels. let alone 4I’s issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by weasel1962
The UK-US relationship is vitally important to both countries and that will be a consideration when dealing with the operational constraints.
and thats the point - it cannot continue as is without effect - its become much harder. we’re already seeing that access to some tech affecting all of us may be of concern to US State. This has got minimal to do with trust and sharing tech to the UK, its about the new constraints.

ignoring the reality of how it affects 4I’s issues by factoring what France and UK will seek to share completely ignores the realities and difficulties that already exist. Its about partnership management with 3 different entities. Its foolish in the extreme to think that it will be a continuing kumbayah moment.

there are a number of programs (ewarfare, comms) where there are other members in the teams, sometimes its not the US that expresses those concerns, its the members themselves and will make submissions to the group about their own technology sets) This is not just an issue about the US State Dept, its about all members who currently share with the UK and who have their own nationalistic concerns about what they think France can see - this is the reality of it, its the real world, its not some internet fable going on here.

it won’t and it isn’t.
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9 Hours Ago   #5182
aussienscale Junior Member   Corporal Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 147
Totally agree with what GF is saying here ! Having come from a Communications background in the RAN and as a Defence Civillian, and also having worked at DSB and Prime Minister & Cabinet, I totally understand where he is coming from and the real impacts this will ( and as GF has said ARE now) have are issues much deeper than will ever be discussed here or in the newspapers.
Are the alliances between all the players important and long standing ? Yes of course, but the gravity of this goes much deeper than that, I could still refer to many specific reasons, but can’t due to a little thing called The Secrecy ACT.
Are the French rubbing their hands hoping to get bits and pieces over time ? You bet they are, it would be like asking a kid not to peek ! Promise ? Sure (with gaps between the fingers)
Just like the Service Chief’s shaking hands and all smiles saying we are working together, but behind closed doors
 
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http://www.youtube.com/v/PTUY16CkS-k?version=3